FINDING A PREVIOUS GENERATION IN WARSAW, ILLINOIS: "Grandma" Helen Filkohazi Ogier's
Bible noted that "there were Ogiers buried in Warsaw, Illinois". This note lead me to a Census Search for Warsaw in microfilm at the LDS Library in Oakland, California. (This was family history research before the internet.)
When the research began, Edward Ogier and his sisters were the
earliest Ogiers known. At that time the 1880 US Census was the earliest one indexed. Index cards had been made for each family entry, organized by Soundex, and microfilmed in order. Soundex was an indexing system that coded names by their first letter and three numbers to represent the consonant sounds. Ogier was O260. When I looked at the micro fisch for I found an entry for a "Jiele" Ogier in Warsaw. The index card for this 1880 Census showed a family that included the previously unknown parents living in Warsaw. The father indexed as "Jiele" Ogier (later Jule), the mother Augustine, and the two
oldest children Edward and Mary were born in France, and the youngest Anna was born in Illinois!. At this time, Censuses could be viewed by locating the LDS Family History Library number on microfiche of State and then the County, ordering the Census film from the LDS Library in Salt Lake, waiting, getting a letter that the film had arrived, and returning to the Family History Center to crank and crank the film. So I did this, and looked at my first Ogier census. Then I carefully marked the location on the film with a scrap of paper, rewound the film and took it to one of the two persons operating the printers.
Now I was brave enough to order the unidexed 1870 Census for Warsaw. Rolling and scanning showed no Jule and Augustine Ogier family. There was a Joseph Ogier, his wife and family and another adult Charles Ogier in a household in Warsaw, Illinois, in 1870. Who were these Ogiers? I had no idea. Making notes about these other Ogiers was the break through lead to finding our Ogier line in France.
Paper letters were the other major research method. I found the death and burial and obit of Augustine Ogier, wife of Jule Ogier. A tombstone showed that she was buried in the same plot as a Louis Ogier who was the right age to be her and Jule Ogier's son. Louis had died on Christmas Day in 1879. What a Christmas for these Ogiers.
A letter brought information about the marriages of Edward Ogier and his sisters Mary and Anna in Keokuk, Iowa, just across the Mississipi from Warsaw. One marriage was a complete surprise: Edward had a brief marriage to Dora Parrott. They apparently had no living children. The family only knew about his marriage to Katherine Malthaner with whom he had children. Their marriage was discovered as well. A 1900 Census for Keokuk showed Edward, listed as Edwin, Kate E, Francis A. Julia George (George Julius), and Anna Giese, Katherine's daughter by her previous marriage. Great source, these censuses, but sometimes recording mistakes are made. Another interesting find was the adult naturalization of Edward Ogier. Two more written requests brought the the death certificates for Edward Ogier and Katherine Ogier.
After Jule/Julius Ogier's wife died, he lived with his youngest daughter Anna and her family. At his death, Julius Ogier was living in Granite City with his daughter Anna, still speaking French, and still a French citizen. A reply to another letter brought the Death Certificate for Julius Ogier. This certificate had his date of death and age at death in years, months, and days. This age became another important clue.
FIRST FRENCH RESEARCH - FINDING THE IMMIGRANT JULE OGIER BIRTH RECORD AT ARCHIVE IN HAUTE SAôNE, FRANCE: From the Warsaw Library in Hancock County an important record was sent to me. Joseph Ogier, the one living in Warsaw in 1870, had made a Declaration of Intention to become a citizen.
He stated that he had been born in "Haute Sone", France. I began to search records for Haute Saône in the Oakland Family History Center. In an index, I found a passport for a Celestin Ogier born at Francheville, Haute Saôane, France, resident of Lure, Haute Saône. I ordered, waited, and searched the microfilm for the village of Lure from the LDS Library. I found a few Ogiers and a few Francoises in Lure,
but not the ones for whom I was looking. Then I looked at a map and discovered that there were at least 20-30 villages in Haute Saône. Looking at the records one at a time appeared to be a very time consuming, probably impossible, project. This realization lead to a letter. With the help of husband Ken's high school French and a French speaking friend, we sent a letter in French to the Archives in Vesoul, Haute Saône, France requesting help. Reply from the Archives was "go to the LDS Library in Salt Lake". This advice lead to planning a trip to the Archives in Vesoul.
The Archivist in Vesoul told us that there were 523 villages in Haute Saône! Each of which had
a record book at the time of interest! "Where did we want to begin?" Because I had mentioned Lure, they suggested we start there. The procedure was to look at a 10 year index, which was not available through the LDS Library. I thought "been there, done that", smiled and took the index for Lure. Our Ogiers were not in Lure, as we already expected. By this time, the three lady archivists were gathered together. One of them had found an old index which showed OGIERs living in the villages of St. Sauvier, Fougarolles, and Quer circa 1790. So we looked through indexes for these villages. Our Ogiers were not there. Since St. Sauvier had the most OGIERs, the archivists suggested trying the village of Luxeuil les Bains which was very close to the village of St. Sauveur. And in the index, Ken found "Ogier, Jule Joseph - 16 Mar 1830". Just about closing. This time we got to look in the actual record book, written from 1823-1832. The birth record was a full paragraph in old handwritten French with about half the text about the persons making the record and a description of the place. The second half had the information we had been searching for. We now knew the full birth name of immigrant Julius Ogier as Jule Joseph Augustine
Ogier, that he was born in Luxeuil-les-Bains in Haute Saône, France, and that his parents were Joseph Ogier and Mary Anne Demange. While Ken was taking a photo copying the important information by hand, I looked in the index for Edward in the same village of Luxeuil-les-Bains but did not find him.
PRINTING REGISTRATIONS FOR IMMIGRANT JULE OGIER AND SOME OF HIS SIBLINGS IN HAUTE SAÔNE, FRANCE: Back in the USA, I located and ordered the microfilm for the Luxeuil-les-Bain birth record we had found in the Archives in Vesoul. In addition to Jule Joseph Augustine Ogier, I found a Charles Victor, a Sophie, an Emelie, and a Marie Justine Ogier.
All of the children listed Marie Anne Demange as the mother - except one. The birth of Sophie Ogier, listed the mother's name as Elizabeth Demange. The father's name was always signed Joseph Ogier.
The birth date of this Sophie was in the right spacing for her to be a member of this same family. The ages of the father and mother had the about the same spacing, a year to a year and a half between them. The parents ages implied the same birth years. Joseph's signature looked the same in all of the records.
Signature on Sophie's Birth Registration
mother listed as Elizabeth Demange
Signature on Emelie's Birth Registration
mother listed as Marie Anne Demange
Joseph Ogier's signature is the clearest evidence for Sophie's being a daughter of the same Joseph Ogier as the rest.
BROTHER FOR "OUR" EDWARD OGIER: An 1880 Mortality Record seems to confirm
that Louis Ogier, who had died on 25 December 1879, was indeed the son of Jule and Augustine Ogier, and brother of our Edward. Louis died in Warsaw, Illinois, when these parents were the only Ogier parents living there, and he was a cooper like Jule Ogier.
MORE EXTENDED FAMILY OGIERS FROM FRANCE TO THE MIDWEST USA: A few years ago, Sharon Schade emailed with extremely interesting Ogier information and stories. She told how "her"
Ogiers had visited "our" Ogiers in St. Louis in 1904 for the Worlds Fair. Susan's Ogiers
were the descendants of the Joseph Ogier from Haute Saône that
I had had in my file drawer for 15 years. (See above.) Susan explained that five Ogier brothers, two Ogier sisters, and their mother named Mary had emigrated. One sister had married a Bersin and the other married a man named Jean Francois Chauvelot. Anne C Chawvolett with husband John F Chawvolett were listed in the 1870 US Census for Wythe Township, Hancock County, Illinois. Julius Bersin went to live with his "Aunt Chauvelot" at the age of 18 months when his mother died. The adult children had immigrated with their mother Mary. A married sister and a younger sister had stayed behind in France. The most intriguing was the story that the father had been killed, perhaps in
his own house. After searching US records for more Ogiers myself and trading information and pictures with Susan, I was inspired to order some more civil registrations from Luxeuil-les-Bains in Haute Saône, France where I had found the birth of our Jule Joseph Augustine Ogier, known as Jule or Julius in the United
Susan then introduced Pat Ogier whose Ogier ancestor was known as Claude or George Ogier. She even had a spelling of "Glode", which was the way an American English speaker might hear a French person pronounce "Claude". And just one more step for a census-taker to write down "George" for "Glode". In 1860 Claude Ogier, age 30, and his wife Margaret, were living next door to a Victor Ogier, wife, and family in Keokuk, Iowa. (In 1900 our Edward Ogier and family, and his married sister Anna, her husband, child, and Anna and Edward's father Jules Ogier lived in Keokuk.) Living with Victor Ogier in 1860 was an elderly
Elizabeth Ogier who may have been Victor and Claude's mother.
In 1870, the Census shows a George "Ojear", age 53, his wife Margaret and family in Hancock County, Illinois. This Ogier male would have been born about 1817. The next census in 1880 showed
Margaret re-married and the "Ogire" children listed as step-children, so Claude/George must have died. Pat, Susan, and I traded information, ideas, and comments.
MORE LUXEUIL-LES-BAINS RECORDS: So what did the French records show about this? The Luxeuil-les-Bains records did show an early death for the French father Joseph Ogier who was
supposed to have been killed. The writing on the record is very difficult to read, but there was no word relating to "kill" or murder". The words typical of death records, "Nous etait transporté au domicile du dèfunte" seems to translate as "we have transported to the domicile of the defunct". The death record did list his wife's name as Marie Anne Demange, his birth place as St. Valbert, and his parents as the deceased Jean Joseph Ogier and Jean Claude Barret.
The Luxeuil records also showed the births of a
Joseph Ogier and a Charles Ogier with parents Joseph Ogier and Marie Anne Demange and in the right birth order to match the 1870 Census. Their birth dates did not quite match the dates we had in US records. Alas, unfortunately,
there were no births in Luxeuil for a Claude Ogier in about 1830 that survived infancy or any male named simply Victor Ogier. The record that confirmed the connection
was the marriage of Anne-Claude Ogier to Jean-François Chauvelot in Luxeuil-les-bains. Anne-Claude Ogier was born in St. Valbert. She was listed as the daughter
of the deceased Joseph Ogier and Marie Anne Demange.
Mariane Demanges' signature
on marriage record,
her name listed in the text as Marie Anne Demange
Anne Claude Ogier's signature
on her marriage record
her name listed in the text as Anne-Claude Ogier
Compare with her name in US Census records.
The marriage registration was signed by her mother as "Mariane Démange", as a single name. This is the only time I have seen her signature so far.
Claude Ogier's signature
on marriage record,
brother of the bride
Jean Francois Chauvelot's signature
listed as Jean-François Chauvelot
The marriage record also listed a Claude Ogier, brother of the of
the bride, who was a witness for the marriage. From his age, he was probably also born in St. Valbert. It is possible that he is the Claude /"George" Ogier, Pat
Ogier's ancestor. With the usual birth spacing, there was time for
another child of Joseph Ogier and Marie Anne Demange to be born in St. Valbert. No marriage of an Ogier woman and a Bersin man was found. Another interesting fact from these records was my note that there were an amazing number of "legitimized" chilren who were recorded after their birth. Obviously, the parents had not had a legal marriage at the time of the children's birth, and that was rectified later.
SOME US INTERESTING CENSUSES:Now that a membership in Ancestry.com lets you do searches for Censuses, new things are easy to find. Wanting to get a copy of that 1880 US Census record for the "Jiele" Ogier and family in my computer, made me do a search on Ancestry. I found that Census and when I looked at it on my computer screen with the name Jule in my mind, I saw something different from "Jiele". The "ie" really looked like a "u" with a loop in the second riser. I also found that both Edward and Mary Ogier as young people were working on farms out in Whyte Township in Hancock County two weeks after the Warsaw Census.
The 1940 Census is the most recently released. In 1940 Edward Ogier was living in the Sullivan Nursing Home in Normandy, Missouri, shortly before he died. George and Helen Ogier and all of their children except their oldest daughter Shirley were living at 5744 Floy in the City of St. Louis, Missouri. George was a policeman for the city police department, and Helen was working as a sales clerk in a retail novelty store. Daughter Shirley was living with her new husband Theophil Froeschner at 5655 St. Louis Avenue, St. Louis.
I have a file with these and a variety of US Censuses for the extended Ogier families that I mumble about here.
RECENT INTERNET FINDS: The death of Violet Ogier Grady / "Aunt Vi" inspired a new internet search for Ogier information. The first find was a completely indexed birth record for Jule Joseph Augustine Ogier, the same one we had discovered only by going to Vesoul, France. Other siblings, children of Joseph Ogier and Marie Demange, that I had found by winding and reading microfilm at an LDS Family History Center, were also indexed. A death date and place for Jacques Ougier/Ogier, the farthest back Ogier ancestor known, a date and place for his marriage to Anne-Marie Orival, seven children in addition to Claude Pierre, and a brother for Jacques, have been entered in to both the French and US Ancestry site by laudet123. Another enrty on the French Ancestry site by herbert272 gave the same death date for the father Jacques and had the same birth date for his son Claude Pierre, but called him only Pierre.
A genealogy site starting with Jean Ogier, brother of the farthest back ancestor Jacques, gave Jean's birth date and place, christening date and place, death date and place. It linked to the father Jacques Ogier and gave his birth date and place and his death date and place. It also linked to the mother Anne Marie Orival and gave her birth year, her death date and place and age at death as104 years. The death date and place for Claude Pierre Ogier was also given by laudet123 on the French Ancestry site.
A civil registration site gave some slightly different birth and death information for Claude Pierre Ogier: birth year 1717 instead of 30 Nov 1716 and death on 30 April 1794 instead of 1 May 1794. It indicated that Claude Piere Ogier's name was sometimes spelled Augier and that the father Jacques name was spelled Ougier and Augier. Four more children were recorded. Our direct line ancestor Jean Ogier whose birth had been listed as 1758 appears to be Jean Joseph Ogier born on 7 March 1760. There was another Jean born in 1758, but that child died in 1759.
MORE DISCOVERIES ON A FRENCH FAMILY HISTORY SITE: I had been monitoring GeneaNet.org for several years - since Keith Ogier found it. I only could enter the surname Ogier and then had to look through all of the Ogiers on the site. Whenever I saw an Ogier from Luxeul-les-Bains where I believed “our” Ogiers came from, I looked at that information. Sometimes I just clicked whenever I saw Haute Saône. Searching, but no results.
FINDING THE MARRIAGE OF IMMIGRANTS JULE OGIER AND AUGUSTINE FRANCOIS IN HAUTE SAÔNE, FRANCE:
Recently the Geneanet.org site has been reorganized. Now you can enter a surname and a place. So I entered Ogier and Haute Saône. Then I had far fewer pages to search.
Now I know that Jule Joseph Augustin Ogier, listed as Julius or Jules in the US, married Marie Augustine Francois on 15 March 1858 in Villers les Luxeuil, Haute-Saône, Franche-Comté, France. Villers les Luxeuil is about 5 miles from Luxeuil-les-Bains. The current population of Luxeuil-les-Bains where Jule Ogier was born is currently about 10,000. Villers les Luxeuil, where they were married currently has a population of about 300. Marie Augustine Francois was born on 9 August 1831 in Villers les Luxeuil. This marriage and her parents and grandparents were listed by Christrophe Meslot, whose family tree was on this Geneanet.org French genealogy site. Many, many thanks to Monsieur Meslot for his entry and to my grandson Thomas Pico, who at age 8, taught me how to copy and paste information from the internet to a Word document so I could evaluate the information off line. As a result, I can share the information with you.
In the US, records listed Augustine’s maiden name or sometimes just name and Francois or Frances. Jule Ogier and Augustine Francois' marriage confirmed that Francois is indeed her surname. It also confirmed that Jule/Julius Ogier that I had found based on his birth date calculated from his death date and year, in the US, was the correct person to be the immigrant ancestor.
I emailed Monsieur Merlot to thank him and asked if he knew an online Civil Registration site. He replied with the link to the Haute Saône Civil Registration Index. I was able to find the marriage in the Civil Registrations.
The really important thing about this marriage discovery was another confirmation that the Jule/Julius Ogier I had found was the ancestor who came to the United States. His wife's name matched the Augustine Francois/Frances that she was called in the US.
Interestingly, there are many different people with family histories on the Geneanet.org site. Most of the entries are for people who stayed in France, and it is a good source for the early Ogiers. The site appears to have few Ogiers who emigrated. Jule who married Augustine is the only child listed from the marriage of Jule’s parents. We have more information about the siblings and probably the mother of immigrant Jule Ogier also immigrated to the Illinois, Iowa, Missouri, and Kansas area in the US.
HAUTE SAÔNE CIVIL REGISTRATION INDEX DISCOVERIES: I reviewed the complete Haute, Saône Civil Registrations that I had printed earlier in my research. The dates on these entries seem to be the date the event was reported, probably some time after the actual event. All of the French histories I had seen, use the date as if it were the event. I am wondering if any old Church records with actual birth and infant baptism dates still survive and how to access them.
The top of the Civil Registration site has three categories: Naissances/Baptemes (Births/Baptisms) Mariages (Marriages>, and Décèes (Deaths/Burials). You click on the category to chose, then the list of villages appears. When you click on the village of choice, you will see the surnames that are included along with the range of times. It's obvious that different persons did the surname lists because they are organized differently, some by individual names and some by a group of names starting with the same letter. The surname click takes you to one or more pages organized by the names of the persons and the date of the record. The last click on the person gives you the indexed information.
Births include information about the child and the parents. Marriages include information about the bride and groom and each of their parents. Deaths include information about the deceased, the spouse of the deceased if married, and the parents of the deceased. The other interesting find is that the deaths of females are listed under their maiden names. This implies that women did not take their husbands' names at that time.
I noticed some Ogier birth places on on the French family history site Geneanet.org as St.-Valbert, but the Civil Registration index site shows the birth place as Luxeuil-les-Bains. I am thinking that the family histories may be based the records of the parish church the person attended. The Civil Registration information is listed under the village/parish where the information was recorded.
TWO BIRTHS OF CHILD "MARY" FOR JULE OGIER AND AUGUSTINE FRANCOIS IN LUXEUIL-LES-BAINS, HAUTE SAÔNE: I had looked at the Haute Sôane Civil Registration site for births of children for Jule and Augustine Ogier with the birth dates I had from US records. Looking for these birth years, I did not find them on the first pass. Maybe Jule and Augustine Ogier's children from Louis who was born in 1858 the year his parents were married and who died in early manhood in Warsaw, Illnois, to “our” Edward who was born in 1862, to Mary whose death certificate showed her birthdate to be 17 Sep 1865 were actually born in Paris as some of information they reported on various US marriage and census records.
By this time I was having fun just clicking on an Ogier birth entry and seeing what was there. The second pass over the entries showed the birth of a Marie Ogier to Jules Ogier, tonnelier/cooper, age 34, and Augustine Francois, age 32, on 17 Sep 1863 in Luxeuil-les-Bains. Is this the Mary who immigrated with her parents, even though the birth date is wrong (two years too early). The death certificate for the Mary in the US and who was married to Isaac Jones gives her birthdate as 17 Sep 1865. Now I know that in earlier times after the death of one child with a given name died, a later child was often given the same name. The day and month are just too much of a coincidence.
The story isn't finished yet. On 1 November 1866 a Maria Ogier was born in Luxeuil-les-Bains to Jules Ogier, tonnelier/cooper, age 37, and Augustine Francois, age 37.
Mother Augustine and her children Edward and Mary had all listed their birthplaces as Paris, France, in obits, marriages, and censuses. These births show that Joseph and Augustine Ogier had at least one child in Haute Saône, not Paris. I did not find Edward or the older brother Louis in Luxeuil-les-Bains. Why? Were the births in a nearby town? Were the parents worried about recording the births of boys for some reason, like military service? It seems unlikely that the parents went off to Paris and came back to their home land in between births.
CONNECTING A SHIP'S RECORD AND CIVIL REGISTRATIONS: Susan Schade had found record for a ship called Dublin which arrived in New York on 18 September 1852. On this ship were Joseph Ogier, 19, which we both thought was her ancestor and the person who had led us to Haute Saône, an Elize Demange, 45, and an Adolph Demange, 16. Just above this was a Jean Claude Osser, what looked to be his wife Ursule, and three daughters. All of these people with Joseph caused a lot of speculation. Neither of us could be certain who these people were.
The first discovery online index Haute Saô Civil Registrations was the birth of Charles Adolphe Demange, whose birth was recorded on 25 July, 1838, in Luxeuil-les-Bains to mother Elizabeth Demange, widow of Joseph Ogier. Charles Adolphe was listed in the index as "Enfant naturel", where the father's name usually appeared. An enfant naturel is a natural child, meaning that the mother had no legal marriage at the time. Of course not. Her husband Joseph Ogier had died. I can tell you that I have seen the registration of a Scottish natural child in my line delayed for four months when christenings were usually done within about a week or two when thetwo parents were legally married in the State Church.
At this point, I think this Charles Adolphe is the man who went by Charles A. Ogier who was living with Joseph Ogier in Warsaw, Illnois, in 1870, and ended up in St. Louis, Missouri. This man and his family knew that his father was the deceased Joseph Ogier, and the man took his surname Ogier in the new country. This use of Charles Ogier as his name also helps explain why the man with the birth name Charles Victor Ogier went by Victor when he was living just across the Mississippi River in Keokuk, Iowa.
The second discovery in the online index Haute Saô Civil Registrations was the marriage of Jean Claude Ogier, journalier/day laborer and son of Joseph Ogier and Marie Anne Damange, to Ursula Segout on 10 July 1851 in Luxeuil les Bains. A birthdate for Jean Claude Ogier was given in St. Valbert, and it matches the age in the marriage record of his sister Anne Claude Ogier. Three children of Ursula Segout were recognized, legitimized as children of the marriage. Ursula had appeared in the Civil Registration birth records for these three and two prior children without a father's name. This marriage was shortly before immigration on the ship Dublin which arrived in New York, USA on 18 September 1852 . Apparently Ursule died onboard the ship or shortly after arriving in the USA, because Claude Ogier married Margaret Dalmus in Hancock County, Illnois, on 11 Jul 1857. This Jean Claude Ogier certainly appears to be the Claude Ogier in the US.
MORE OGIERS IN FRENCH CIVIL REGISTRATIONS: I recently discovered that I incorrectly entered the infant death of Charles Victor Ogier in France. Neither my Civil Registration prints nor the online Civil Registration index show the death. So I now believe that this Charles Victor Ogier, born 17 September 1824, to Joseph Ogier and Marie Anne Demange, in Luxeuil, is the Victor living next to Claude Ogier in 1860.
The Charles Ogier, born 1 Feb 1835 in Luxeuil, son of Joseph Ogier and Marie Anne Demange, was the one I had thought was the Charles Ogier living with Joseph Ogier and family in Warsaw, Illinois, in 1870. He is not. The online index to Civil Registrations for Haute Saone show that he died at 6 months. I had missed this in the microfilm version of the Registrations that I had seen earlier. The "Acte daté du" which I now interpret as the date of the record, not the date of the event, was 01 August 1836. In fact this time period not adding up to 6 months makes me think that the Civil Registration Index incorrectly listed the year of death. Also, the full Registration suggest that the dates are the dates of records, not dates when the event happened. This death record makes it impossible for this Charles Ogier to be the one in Warsaw, Illinois, and elsewhere later. It gives more credence to the idea that Charles Adolph Demange Ogier was the one in Warsaw in 1870 and then in St. Louis, Missouri, where he died and was buried.
Another discovery was the death of a Geneviéve Ogier which showed her birth in St. Valbert on 12 Jun 1820, her parents as Joseph Ogier and Marie Anne Demange, and her husband as August Hector Thériot. She is the missing child I had speculated about when I looked at the marriage of Anne Claude Ogier. Brother Claude Ogier was a witness at her wedding, just like he was a witness for Anne Claude. Geneviéve Ogier was the older married sister who stayed behind in France when the most of the rest of the siblings and mother emigrated. August was listed as Domestique (servant) when they married and a Voiturier (carter) by the time a child was born.
The marriage of a younger sister Emelie Ogier, to Nicolas Joseph Larriere,cultivateur/ farmer, in Luxeuil-les-Bains on 15 June 1854 was found. Emilie was a journalière/ day laborer at the time of her marriage. Both her birth record and her marriage record show that she was born 16 May 1828 to Joseph Ogier and Marie Anne Demange. She was the younger sister that stayed behind because there was not enough money to emigrate with the rest.
Incidentally, I have a print copy to the Civil Registration for Emelie's birth, but the birth is not listed in the online index.
AN OGIER WHO WHO WENT TO NEBRASKA AND SPELLED HIS NAME OSIER: A family story told of one of the sons of Joseph Ogier and Mary Anne Demange, brother of Jules/Julius, who changed the spelling of the name to Osier and went to Nebraska. A Mike Osier has a family history on Ancestry.com. He lists the name of Joseph Ogier's wife as Marie Ann E Demange He also lists Charles Victor Osier, birth 16 Sep 1824 in Luxevil, France and death as 15 Oct 1894 in O'Neill, Holt, Nebraska, USA. Thus we have a confirmation of the double name of Mariane Elizabeth Demange and the change of name to Charles Osier for Victor Ozier. It also confirms the story of one of Susan Schades's family that an Ogier went to Nebraska and changed the spelling of the name to Osier.
This is the man that I now believe to have been recorded as Victor in the US Census in 1860. His wife in that census was listed as Mary, born in France. There were three children children recorded with the age of 3, and other children ages 6, 5, 4, and 1. Perhaps this was a blended family, a his, hers, and theirs. The wife Mary's birthplace in France and age are significant.
A Nebraska State Census in Paddock Precinct, Holt County, 1885, lists a Charles Osier, age 63, born in France; wife Mary, age 36, born in Canada; and two children, Elie, a son aged 16, and Emma, aged 8. This looks very much like Charles Ogier, age 50; wife Mary, 40, born in Canada; and children Adolph, 24; Florence, 22; Elias, 5; Emma, 3; in Eliot Township, Louisa County, Iowa in the 1880 US Census. The two oldest children were born in Illinois and the two youngest in Iowa. Because of the long time between the older children and the younger children, they appear to have different mothers. The age and birthplace in Canada of the mother named Mary are significant.
Child Florence's death record states that her mother's name was Victorine. Could the first wife in the 1860 Census been named Mary Victorine? Or did Charles V. Ogier/Osier have three wives? A Victoinrine, a French Mary, a Canadian Mary.
A 1892 Civil War Pension index a Charles V. Ozier with an invalid record, from Nebraska. This is so far the one US record that has both the name "Charles" and a "V." for Victor.
SOPHIE OGIER'S MARRIAGE, PROOF HER MOTHER MARY ANNE WAS CALLED ELISABETH: At this point, I knew that the controversial Sophie Ogier and the really unknown Josette Ogier were the only candidates to be the immigrant sister and mother of Julius Bersin. I had been looking for new information at Haute Saône Civil Registrations for Luxeuil-les-Bains, villages near Luxeuil-les-Bains, and other villages where Ogiers had lived, No Sophie. No Josette.
Then one clear morning I thought it would be interesting to see if there were any Ogiers I might recognize in Lure, the first Haute Saône village I had searched. Woo Hoo! Hip, hip, Hurrah! Bingo! A marriage for Sophie Ogier. Her father was Joseph Ogier. Her mother was listed as "DEMANGE Marie Anne dite Elisabeth" / DEMANGE, Marie Anne called Elisabeth!
On 23 April 1850, Sophie Ogier married Jean Baptiste Théophile Berein in Lure, Haute Saô, France. In the US, the child of these parents had the surname spelled Bersin, instead of Berein. Here again this may be the old indexing "Jiele"/Jule story. The difference between the index which listed the name as "Jiele" Ogier and the name on the census document which looked like Jule, which was the man's actual name. On the other hand, it may be the difference between the French spelling of the name, Bersin, and the German spelling, Berein. The father of Sophie Ogier's husband was born in nearby Switzerland in a town that is called both Bienne and Biel. My Atlas showed both names for the town. The two names appear to be a French version and a German version of the town's name.
The Civil Registrations for births in Lure showed no Jean Baptiste Théophile Berein/Bersin. Two old registrations in the 1790s did show one child with the surname spelled Berein, and another child with the same parents having the surname spelled Bersin.
What about the little-known Josette Ogier? I have seen four family histories on Geneanet with her birth in St.-Valbert, and the same birth on the LDS FamilySearch.org. The place and date are the same as I had found previously. No death or marriage in these histories. I have found no death or marriage either.
SUMMARY OF THE OGIERS WHO IMMIGRATED AND THOSE WHO STAYED:
One Mother who was listed as Marie Anne Demange and who was called by Elisabeth Demange in her daughter Sophie Ogier's birth registration, her son Charles Adolphe Demange's birth regisration that happened after the death of her husband, the ship's record when she immigrated, and the 1860 Census Record for Jackson Township, Lee County, Iowa. She was born on 31 July 1797 in St.-Valbert. When her husband Joseph died in 1837, she was pregnant and left with 9 or 10 children from ages 4 to 20, depending on whether their daughter Josette had died. Her husband Joseph had died 15 years before her emigration in 1852.
And in French birth order with French birth names, dates and birth places,
Five sons who emigrated
1. Claude Ogier, born 1 Jun 1818 in St.-Valbert, listed as Claude Ogier on his sister
Anne-Claude's marriage record in 1844 and the 1860 Census Record for Jackson
Township, Lee, County, Iowa; Jean Claude when he married Ursula Seguot and
when he immigrated, and as George Ojear in the 1870 US Census
Hancock, County, Illinois
2. Charles Victor Ogier, born 17 September 1824 in Luxeuil-les-Bains, and listed as
Victor Ozier in the 1860 Census Record for
Jackson Township, Lee, County, Iowa; as
Charles Ogier in the 1880 Regular US Census and the Agricultural Census for Eliot
Township, Louisa County, Iowa; as Charles Osier in the 1885 Nebraska Census for
Paddock Precinct, Holt County, Nebraska; and as Charles V. Ozier on the index card for
an 1892 Civil War Pension application while living in Nebraska
3. Jule Joseph Augustine Ogier, born 16 March 1830 in Luxeuil-les-Bains, our Julius/Jule
Joseph Ogier, born 20 July 1833. who was always called
Joseph, but became
Joseph Sr. when his son was called Joseph Jr.
5. Charles Adolphe Demange Ogier, birth 25 Jul 1838 in Luxeuil-les-Bains, listed as
Charles Adolphe Demange, son of widow Elisabeth Demange; as Adolphe Demange
when he immigrated with his mother Eliz, brother Joseph, and brother Jean Claude with
his wife and three daughters; listed as Charles Ogier in the 1870 Census for Warsaw,
Hancock County, Illinois, and also as Charles A. Ogier in St. Louis, Missouri
Two daughters who emigrated
1. Anne Claude Ogier, born 5 July 1816, Saint-Valbert, who married Jean Francois Chauvelot, cultivateur/farmer, in Luxeuil-les-Bains, Haute Saône, France, and raised nephew Julius Bersin in the US
2. Sophie Ogier born 17 December 1826, who married Jean Baptiste Théophile Berein, cultivateur/farmer, in Lure, and who was the mother of Julius Bersin
Two daughters who stayed in France
1. Geneviève Ogier, born 12 June 1829 in Luxeuil-les-Bains, the older sister, who married Auguste Hector Théroit, carter,
and had two children in Luxeuil-les-Bains
2. Emelie Ogier, born 16 May 1828 in Luxeuil-les-BAins
the younger sister who was unmarried when the others emigrated
and who later married Nicolas Joseph Larriere, cultivateur/farmer
A PRIOR OGIER GENERATION IN FRANCE: Combining family histories from Geneanet.org and online Civil Registration indexes shows a Jacques Ogier, born in St Valbert who married Anne Allemand in Fougerolles,Haute-Saône ,France. They were the parents of at least nine children including the Jacques Ougier who was the earliest Ogier ancestor I had traced up to this time. This prior Jacques was buried/inhumé(e) à St Sauveur.
SPECIAL THANKS TO
Theophil Frank Albert "Ted" Froeschner and Shirley Helen Ogier Froeschner whose conversations told of Edward Ogier and two of his sisters who lived in St. Louis, and who made our real treasure the Picture Book of Froeschner Ancestors with exact dates for each ancestor which started me on this adventure;
Helen Filkohazi Ogier who became the matriarch of the Ogier family in St. Louis and who noted in her family Bible that some Ogiers were buried in Warsaw, Illinois;
Don Ogier who said that his father George was born in Keokuk, Illinois;
Mary Ogier O'Brien who described the same Warsaw and Keokuk connections, said that Edward Ogier indicated he was from Paris, France, and sent pictures, her father George's army discharge papers, and copies of her grandparents George and Helen Ogier's marriage license and certificate;
Violet Ogier O'Grady who sent information about current Ogier families and allowed me to borrow her mother Helen Filkphazi Ogier's Bible overnight;
Ruth Reuter and Sue Cunningham of the Warsaw Library; Donald Parker of the Hancock County Genealogical ;, Geraldine Satterly of The Lee County Genealogical Society who searched local records and sent information;
Merci beaucoup a Eric and Maud Cossurelle for their GENEALOGIE D'ERIC & MAUD COSSURELLE website that
took both our Ogier and Demange ancestors back another two generations from what we knew, and whose website unfortunately no longer exists;
Keith Ogier,who has an Ogier Family History Web Site called Ancestors of Evelyn and Charlotte, discovered an Ogier generation prior to the one I found in France, and gave me the death dates and burial place for Mary (Ogier) O'Brien and Bill O'Brien;
Susan Schade who now has an Ancestry.com family history called Bailey-Gay, and Pat Ogier who now has an Ancestry.com family history called Allen-Ogier, the two women who shared information and speculations to make Ogier research fun again;
Christrophe Meslot, who had the marriage of Jule Joseph Augustine Ogier and Marie Augustine Ogier on his family history at Geneanet.org and told me how to access Haute Saone Civil Registrations online;
Jacky MASSON whose family history Geneanet.org had the prior generation, the first Jacques Ogier and Anne Allemand;
Susan Schade who sent me Kate Ferguson's Ogier family story of Joseph and Josephine Ogier;
Kate Ferguson who wrote the story;
Mike Osier who has an Ancestry family history called "Osier", with the brother who went to Nebraska and changed the spelling to Osier and whose history listed the mother's name as Mary Ann E Demange;
Keith Ogier on "Ancestors of Evelyn and Charlotte, Kimberly Stephenson Froeschner on her Ancestry "Froeschner Ancestors", Susan Schade on her Ancestry "Bailey-Gay", and John Grady on his Ancestry "John the Younger" who made links or PDF notes to my research.
and to anyone else who makes links or footnotes to this research. Please let me know you have discovered, and I'll return the favor.
Were Jule Joseph Ogier and Augustine Francois actually married, Augustine and their children
Edward and Mary really born in Paris as they stated in the US? The marriage, Augustine 's birth and two versions a daughter Mary's birth have been found in Haute Saône. Son Edward Ogier's birth and that of Louis Ogier has not been found in Haute Saône. I have looked at all the villages in the index at this time. So Edward's birth place is still an open question. If this were Prussia, I would definitely think that the parents did not want their sons to go into the military and did not register their sons births. On the other hand, the 1930 US Census lists Edward's birth "Paris, France", while everyone else on the page has only a state or country. So maybe he really was born in Paris. Paris has many parishes and most of the Civil Registrations have been destroyed by fire. An attempt to re-create the registrations from church records and wills is underway. We may never find proof of where Edward was born.
Were Marie Anne Demange and Elizabeth Demange the same person? Logic and Probability suggested that there was one woman who sometimes used different names. Sophie Ogier's marriage registration with her mother named as Mary Anne Demange called Elisabeth was the clincher. A church baptism in St.-Valbert might show a complete name for the mother such as Marianne Elisabeth Demange. The online Civil Registrations do not list her birth in St.-Valbert. St.-Valbert is a very small village, but the number of Civil Registrations seems smaller than other villages of the same size. I have the impression that some registrations for St.-Valbert were actually done in Luxeuil-les-Bains. A few of the French family histories on Geneanet.org list St.-Valbert as the birthplace when the registration is listed under Luxeuil-les-Bains. The two parishes are next to each other.
Why did I list Edward Ogier's first marriage to Dora Parrott, and what is known about Dora? About twenty-five years ago I received a personal letter with an extraction of the marriage of Edward Ogier and Dora Parrott. Since the Ogier descendants had never heard of the marriage, I reserved the marriage information for them. Now, when a search under marriages is done on Ancestry.com or the LDS Familysearch.org, this marriage comes up. The source is FHL Film Number 960033. This means that the record is in the Family History Library (FHL) of the Church of Latter Day Saints in Salt Lake and can be ordered through local Family History Libraries.
The 1880 US Census for Augusta, Hancock County, Illinois lists Dora, age 9, with her parents and siblings. The 1885 Iowa Census Jackson Township, Lee County, Iowa where Keokuk is the post office lists Dora, age 14, with her parents and siblings. Her father was a farmer. Dora's 1891 marriage to Edward was her second marriage at the age of 20. The other surname on the marriage index/extraction was Nenins, Menins, or Nevins - depending on who did the indexing. This seems to be her first husband, but I have not found him.
Recently I searched the Public Family Histories on Ancestry.com to see if these marriages had been listed by individuals. Neither of these two marriages appeared, but a Dora Parrott who was listed with the censuses above had three different marriages. She married a Charles Albert Hutchinson with whom she had six children starting in 1889 in Manitoba, Canada. Then she married an Alfred Howard Parkyn in Canada and then a William James Gleason in California. She died in San Diego, California.
So what was the story of Edward and Dora? I was told that Keokuk had no divorce records from the time period. Your story is as good as mine.
Who was the Louis Ogier buried in the same plot in Warsaw, Illinois as Augustine Ogier, wife of Jule/Julius Ogier? His name on the same tombstone as mother Augustine Ogier in Warsaw, Illinois, and his information on the 1880 Mortality Schedule for Warsaw, Illinois and no other Ogier known as Louis in the area confirm that he was the child of Augustine and Jule/Julius Ogier.
Does anyone have information about Edward Ogier and Katherine Malthaner Ogier's youngest daughter, Marie L. Ogier. She was born about 1906 in St. Louis,Missouri and was reported as married to Ginz Albietz. I found no Censuses for Marie or Ginz Albietz.
When, where, and at what age did Jean Joseph Ogier, husband of Jeanne Claude Barret, die? The need for this answer comes from the confusion on the French family histories on Geaneanet between this Jean Joseph and his slightly older brother Joseph Ogier who married Anne Marguerite Aubry. Both men were born in Luxeuil-le-Bains, according to the Haute Saône Civil Registrations - "our" Jean Joseph in 1760 and Joseph in 1757.
Jeanne Claude Barrett's husband was listed as Jean Ougier on their marriage registration. The marriage was in Fougerolles where more names seem to be spelled "Ougier" at the time. His name was listed as Jean Joseph Ogier on the death record of their son, Joseph Ogier - the man who died young. On the same death record, her name was listed in the usual way: Jeanne Claude Barret, mother of Joseph Ogier.
The older brother Joseph Ogier, who was born in 1757, married Anne Marguerite Aubry in Esboz-Brest, another nearby village in Haute SAô. Both this husband and wife died there. This Joseph Ogier died in 1826 at the age of 69 which makes his birth year 1757 and neatly sorts out which man he is.
A death date and age for Jean Joseph Ogier, husband of Jeanne Claude Barrett, would refer back to his birth year and really confirm that he was the man who was born in 1760. I have not yet found his death registration.
When had the various Ogiers emigrated? Our Jule Joseph, wife and children arrived in the US between 1870 and 1872, perhaps even June 1870. Joseph Ogier immigrated in 1852, according to his
Declaration of Intent to become a citizen. On the other hand, the immigration record we have found for a Joseph Ogier is in 1853. The immigration dates of the rest remain unclear or unknown. There were other Ogiers, some from Ohio, in the Warsaw, Illinois, area and elsewhere in the more Eastern US.
Would a newspaper in Luxeuil-les-Bains have an article about Joseph Ogier's death, the one who died young and may have been killed or murdered in his own home? Since the Civil Registration for this Joseph Ogier did not describe the event, a newspaper might be a source of confirmation of this story.
Can we find evidence to show that Claude/George Ogier found in the US was the Claude Ogier who was the brother/witness in Anne-Claude Ogier's marriage? The earlier birthdate is a close match.
The most convincing evidence is Pat Ogier's comment that she had a letter from the Emily Ogier, daughter of Margaret and Claude Ogier, to her cousins Adolph and Victor, who were the children of immigrant Joseph Ogier. We need to look at the actual civil registrations and church records for St. Valbert. The online index for the civil registrations has very few names. (I'm thinking that the person's born in St.-Valbert often went to Luxeuil-les-Bains to be registered.) At this point, I have linked Claude to the Joseph Ogier and Mary Anne (Elisabeth) family in Haute Saone.
What connections are there between Victor "Ozier", next door to Claude "Ozier" in 1860 and Charles Osier in 1880?
In the early years... In 1860 Victor's age was listed as 25 and his wife was a French Mary, 31. They were living with seven children born within five years and Elizabeth, 62; of an age to be his mother and next door to a Claude Ozier and his wife. The mother and brother seem to confirm that this Victor was Charles Victor Ozier. Was this family of Victor a blended family, a his, hers, and ours? The number of children so close together when typical birth spacing was two years suggests this. Could the age discrepancy been due to misunderstanding of the French? Did the husband go by Victor at the time because had that last younger brother Charles Adolphe Demange Ogier living just across the Mississippi River?
In the middle years... Both a Charles Ozier, 39; and a Victor Ozier, 28; were listed as residing in Lee County in an Iowa 1863 Civil War Draft. Are there two "Ozier" men in this June 1863 Civil Was Registration? Two names with widely different birth years are listed. The ages make Charles born in about 1824, which is consistant with the Frence birth registraton. The Victor was born in about 1835, which is consistant with the 1860 Census for Lee County, Iowa.
Charles V. Ozier was indexed with a pension record when he lived in Nebraska. This is the only record so far that seems to have both the Charles and the Victor as one person. Where was Victor/Charles/Charles V Ogier in the 1870 Census? No Census record has been found under either name.
In the later years... In 1880 Charles Ogier was married to a Canadian Mary, 40. The children listed were two older children and two younger children. The older children were Adolph, 24; and Flora, 22. The younger children were Elias, 5; and Emma 3. By 1885 Charles and Mary "Osier" were living in Nebraska with the two younger children, Elie, 16; and Emma, 8. The last two entries are definitely for the same man.
Both the families of the 1860 Victor and the 1880 Charles have a daughter Flora. No son is named Adolph in the 1860 family. Was one of the boys called by one name in childhood and he used the name Adolph as a adult? A death record for the Flora in these later years listed her mother's name as Victorine. Was the 1860 French Mary's name Mary Victorine or Victorine Mary? Or were these two separate wives, and the man had three wives?
I now have the man as Charles Victor Ogier and think of him with his birth name. My current conclusion is that he had a second, or perhaps third, wife Mary who was Canadian, two more children, went to Nebraska and spelled the Osier. Why did he change the spelling to Osier? Ah, yet another mystery.
Which of these Charles Ogiers is which? Some answers...
Charles Ogier living with Joseph Ogier in Warsaw in 1870?
Now believed to be Charles Adolph Demange Ogier, using Ogier as his surname in the US.
Charles A. Ogier, subscriber to the Illustrated Historical Atlas of Hancock County, Illnois, 1874?
Charles Adolphe Demange Ogier.
Charles A. Ogier, uncle of and living with Julia Celricbrilles in St. Louis in 1880?
Charles Adolphe Demange Ogier. It seems like that the Julia may be Julie Seguot Ogier,daughter of Claude Ogier and Ursule Seguot. The ages work. Another possibility is a child for Anne Claude and Jean Francois "John" Chauvelot with a strange spelling of the surname. Nothing about Julia's life or any marriage in the US has been found.
Charles Ogier, married to Sophronia J. Jenning, 16 March 1871, Hancock County, Illinois?
Still Unknown. Could be Charles Adolphe Demange Ogier. No marriage or family him been confirmed. Did he remain single or lose his wife before 1880 when he was living with Julia Celricbrilles as her uncle?
Charles Ogier, married Mary Berger on 13 April 1874, Iroquois County, Illinois?
Seems to be Charles Victor Ogier, who changed the spelling of his name to Osier and went to Nebraska. He was living with his Canadian-born second wife named Mary, older and younger children in Elliot Township, Louisa County, Iowa in 1880. Several histories on Ancestry.com list Mary Berger as his is wife at this time. So, seems to be the Charles Victor Ogier described above.
Charles Ozier who married Mary Veyette on 13 April 1872, Iroquois County, Illinois? Iroquois County is a bit far from the other Ogier happenings. Still unknown. Could be Charles Adolphe Demange Ogier, as noted above. Could be Charles Victor Ogier.
Charles Ogier, living as a boarder at 1307 Washington Avenue, St. Louis in 1900?
Charles Adolphe Demange Ogier
Charles A. Ogier who died in St. Louis in 1904 and buried in Pickering Cemetery in St. Louis?
Charles Adolphe Demange Ogier
Was Charles Victor Ogier married in France to his first wife name Mary - who was born in France? I have not found the marriage in Luxeuil-les-Bains. It appears that the marriages often took place and were registered in the home town of the wife.
Where were Jean Francois and Anne Claude Chauvelot and child Julius Berson in the 1860 Census? With Julius Bersin's birthdate in the 1850's and his going to live with his "Aunt Chauvelot" at about 18 months, they should be together and in the US in 1860. The 1870 Census is the first I have for the Chauvelot's and Julius Berson is not with them. By 1870 Julius Bersin would have been old enough to go work on another person's farm, and he should have appeared in a Census there. He has not yet been found there either.
Can the location of the farm owned by J F Chauvelot in Whyte Township, Hancock
County, Illinois in 1874 lead to his land owner ship and will? In 1874 J F Chauvelot owned 40 acres in Whyte Township, Hancock County, Illinois:
Township 4 N, Range 8 W, Section 12, NWQuarter of NWQuarter.
Did Jean Francois and
Anne-Claude Chauvelot have any children? Apparently not. Did Julius Bersin inherit their farm?
Who was the Ogier woman who married a Bersin man, was the mother of Julius Bersin, and
who died when Julius was 18 months old? This has been solved as Sophie Ogier. I have no Civil Regisration or family history data and the marriage or death of Sophie'e sister Josette Ogier, who was also a candidate.
What more information is available about Julius Bersin? Early US Census records list is birth as 1854, and his tombstone as 1850. He was supposed to have been born in Missouri. Where? When?
Who is Victoria or Victorine Ogier, seen in Census records with families other than Ogier?re As a 7 year old on the Whyte Township, Hancock County, Illinois, a few farms down from the Chauvelots in 1870, and as 17 year old servant in Keokuk, Iowa in 1880? She was born in the US, either Illinois or Iowa.
Who was Julia Cebriebriles who was a niece of Charles A. Ogier in the 1880 Census for St. Louis, Missouri? Charles A. was listed as "Uncle". Another unusual spelling of the surname Chauvelot? Pronouned "Ce-breh-ley". Or was this Julia was the daughter of Jean Claude Ogier and Ursula Seguot? There was a daughter named Julia, and this may have been her married name. It's even possible that there was a relative of Jean Francois Chauvelot who immigrated and married Claude and Ursula's daughter Julia.
Please contact me by email: Jeanette@Martin-Froeschner.net